Sig p320 “unsafe”

Ok, I know it’s a controversial topic, and I will start by saying I’m a big fan, and also use a 320 as my main range training side arm currently. I use quality holsters from Safariland and other top brands. I also don’t use “catch all” type holsters and use only ones designed and built for the 320. I have seen all the videos of pistols going off, and have a solid understanding of the fire control unit process. I am curious what the group thinks as far as, are these AD’s we see some outlying force? Is there negligence in the part of the operator? Or is the p320 an unsafe pistol?

This is an opinion gathering discussion, so if you have first hand knowledge awesome. If you are just rewriting what someone you don’t know wrote in the internet, that’s fine, but please note that in your response.

Original Sig P320’s (2014), had a deign flaw in the trigger mechanism that could cause the pistol to fire when dropped with the muzzle pointing straight up and the slide and frame get impacted at the exact same time.
Sig has solved this issue with a couple modified parts. you can visit the site I linked below to enter your serial # and tell you if yours is modified or not. If not, they will send you the parts free of charge!
https://www.sigsauer.com/p320-voluntary-upgrade-program

I have a P320 full size in 9mm, a P320 compact in 9mm, and a P320 compact in 40 S&W/357 Sig. I alternate carrying the P320 compacts with my P365X and M11-A1. I personally never had an issue with any of mine. From my understanding, and from what I’ve read, most of the incidents were from negligence, using improper holsters, or objects such as part of a shirt dropping into the holster while reholstering. All of my holsters are kydex specifically made for each model and fully cover the trigger guard.

Like @JohnnyB said the early ones did have a design flaw which has been corrected. If you have any concerns about your model, you should check with the link that JohnnyB provided above as he indicated.

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Thanks for the reply’s. I have multiple p320 FCU’s and my original unit was sent in for voluntary upgrade. I also have never had any issues with my personal products. I do know the early trigger shoe weight seemed to allow dropping just right to fire. My question is more of the recent videos and issues from well past the original design. I also now wonder if any of those recent videos are of non-upgraded FCU. I love my 320’s so this is more of a what are others seeing out there than anything.

The sigtalk.com forum has a boatload of info on this topic. You should check it out @Earlswagger

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Well I think it’s more than a bit overblown, but not totally baseless.

There was the initial drop safety issue, and that was very much real and blood in the water. The lawyers will be trying to make dollars off it forever, and police refusing to take responsibility for their screw ups will perpetually muddy the water from things that are actual issues.

I’ll go through the various issues and what I think are real and what I think are BS resulting from dishonesty.

Out of battery kabooms:
These are real, but exacerbated by piss poor hand loads, shitty reman ammo, and awful manufacturers like freedom munitions and AAC.

At the root of it is SIG and their rolling revisions and the resultant variation in chamber support, barrel lockup robustness, and small parts tolerance stacking in the FCU. Most 320s can fire out of full lockup, but not beyond the point where the case has started extraction. Some can when it is a bit farther, and that can lead to a KB, especially with dodgy brass. Some guns that don’t do this are also going to KB because of increasingly bad QC on cheap ammo post all the panic buying and ammo supply crises we have had. The bottom of the barrel in ammo is much worse than it used to be.

You will see more of it from competitors because they have a higher instance of swapping barrels for aftermarket ones. Some of the aftermarket ones derived their dimensions from some of the worse SIG rolling changes. Also people brass hounding at matches that may have people shooting 9mm major may be reloading totally clapped out brass just waiting to ruin their day.

Unintended discharge:

They have happened, but why?

  1. bad shooter behavior is one of them and likely the primary contributor.

  2. The design of the drop safety plus shooter behavior. The drop safety on the 320 compare to the designs of the glock and M&P (which are very similar), is rather delicate. It’s a thin piece of stamped steel and a small spring. It NEEDS to be regularly inspected for proper function, and most people treat it like it is a forever part. One of the least talked about NDs and one of the better ones in terms of after incident analysis occurred with the US army and training. A foreign body entered the gun and seized up the fire controls. Young GI di young GI things and squeezed as hard as he could and mangled the drop safety in the process. Gun later discharged due to impact (IIRC impact from trying to clear a malfunction). But wait! some competitors have had this issue and they know what they are doing! Yeah, many don’t and jump into modifying guns they don’t understand how they work. One of the main things competitors want to modify is pretravel because it varies a bit in the 320 and ranges from a fair amount to lots and lots. Enter triggers with pre travel adjustment screws. You can take out all the pretravel! Great, but you also disabled the drop safety. For bonus points, the pre adjustment screws on some of them can work loose and become a foreign body in the gun. This can lead to the above.

  3. Foreign body entry can result in non standard operation an ND.

I’ve had this happen. The foreign body was the pretravel screw from one of those triggers. I knew to not over adjust it, but it worked itself loose into, rather than out of the gun. In that process I pulled the trigger to see if I could get it to fire, bit not dice. It did bind up worse, and in the course of trying to clear it it finally went bang but not with my finger on the trigger. I was extremely cognizant of the risk and while it was startling, it was not a total surprise and I was handling things in a manner that I would not hurt myself or send a bullet someplace unsafe. Is this any different than any other gun though? I’m not sure and wished I understood the mechanism of failure better, but it’s not like you are going to get a catscan on hand in the middle of trying to clear a jam like that. I can say that analysis after the fact showed no damage or other issues and I recovered the set screw.

  1. Light bearing holsters can screw you in the dingus.

There have been some discharges from cops. Some on video. They all involve light bearing holsters. Light bearing holsters for fat ass lights leave a HUGE gap by the trigger. Things can get in there and pull the trigger. But it doesn’t happen to glocks!!! it has in fact happened to glocks. But I have a Safariland!! Yeah it has specifically happened to glocks with safariland holsters. Safariland is up to like their 3rd or 4th silent redesign of their light bearing holsters for the 320. Pairing pistols with no external safety with something massive like and x300 and then using it with a holster is asking for problems until someone comes up with a design that works better/differently. That being said, something much narrower like a T6 with a design where rather than covering the trigger guard the holster wraps partially around the grip seem to be a much better design. If you are going with something like an x300 light, you might want to go with the external safety.

  1. Things that are (probably) bullshit.

So the lawsuits that have been won/settled made the argument the sear design is defective/dangerous. The sear engagement, they say, is uneven and insufficient. It’s no more uneven than anything else, and is sufficient compared to other reliable firearms. But most importantly the striker leg falling off the sear CANNOT set off a round unless the drop safety is disengaged. Anything legitimate, I suspect, is going to have to come down to a defect in implementation or design of the drop safety. Or a foreign body altering the relative geometry of the design.

The one possible exception to the sear engagement thing comes back to something I have seen recommended online several times as well as a possible revision issue. The 320 has two sear springs. Some folks have recommended using different weights at the same time. This can create issues with things moving unevenly, but it should generally function. However some folks have recommended interlacing the two springs and making basically an X out of them. Do not do this. It will greatly shorten the lifespan of the springs and increase the risk of failure taking the form of a broken spring. This impacts the sear’s return to full engagement.

  1. Things that are actually a concern.

SIG’s rolling updates and the fact some things don’t have a lot of room for error are a potential issue.

My advice:
The gun is basically safe. If something is not working do NOT push it harder. If you want to a DIY drop in trigger job, the right move is the gray guns kit with either the OEM springs or medium springs and the apex tactical trigger bar. The only safe way to reduce pretravel by more than a mm or 2 is the apex trigger bar or breaking out a tig welder and a file and knowing what the hell you are doing.

And whatever you do don’t try to invent the 320 equivalent of the $0.25 glock trigger job.

Also watch the sig mechanic videos if you want to understand how your gun works.

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Thank you @RAZ-0 for taking the time to create perhaps the most complete and educational responses I have ever seen on a gun forum!

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They do not send you the parts. There is machining to be done on the slide so you have to send the gun in to Sig. They will do it all for free.

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Agreed, @Raz, great info and thoughts on this. I often wonder about the x300 and space in the Safariland. I looked at but never tried that agency arms trigger wondering if that Glock style trigger safety would solve any ND from the holster issue.

I don’t use shit ammo and agree that would add unimaginable amount of variables. Even the stuff I have reloaded I pay more attention too since it’s once used brass.

Again, I appreciate the time and effort in this response.

As an example of sig stuff getting amplified by the interwebs but for some reason we ignore other brands. Shit happens. Sometimes it’s a Glock.

What’s funny is Sig originally advertised it with an optional trigger with tabbed safety. I held off buying one hoping they’d eventually release it. They never did.

I can’t help but think that it might help with some of the ND’s lately.

See around 1:00 in:

Does anyone have the agency shoe? And if so, does it feel like crap? Or just like any other poly frame pistol?

The sig 320 has three factory triggers:

  1. Curved with original geometry - has a 6-7lb pull with break felt towards the end of travel.
  2. Flat with original geometry -6-7lb pull and by moving the trigger forward it feels like the break is further forward, but is still actually at the end of travel.
  3. Flat with new geometry. - has a 4-5lb pull. travel is similar to #2.

Al can lose as much as ~1lb after they wear in.

The agency arms trigger is the old style geometry and sort of splits the difference between trigger shoe position on 1&2. It does not replace any of the components other than the trigger itself, so it doesn’t really change pull weight or feel unless there’s something messed up with your OEM trigger.

I had read some folks complaining the safety tang would not engage unless they were 100% centered on the shoe or something. Could just be dump people doing dumb shit, but the question was more along the lines of, if you have the trigger have you experienced any issues with disarmament or smooth use of the shoe.