Scenario: My sister’s friend in California wants to gift a pistol to my sister in NJ. My sister has been issued a FOID card and a pistol purchase permit. Remote and local FFLs have been chosen.
Question: After the FFL licenses are exchanged, what exactly is the procedure that the local FFL should follow?
The reason for asking is, the local FFL performed a background check when my sister initially arranged for delivery. There were delays in sending out a copy of the FFL license and in shipping. By the time she went to pick up the pistol, she was told the background check had expired after 30 days, so she has to pay to have another background check done. What I’m wondering is, is it common to do the check before a pistol is even shipped, or should it done after the pistol is received by the local FFL?
(From my knowledge and experience in other states, the background check is done on the spot when picking up the pistol, not in advance of shipping.)
My opinion only - the NJ FFL was trying to “help” by doing the NICS check in advance of the pistol arriving to give your sister the shortest time to take possession of the pistol after delivery.
The NJ FFL probably didn’t expect that shipping would take >30 days and that the NICS check would expire before the pistol arrived.
Again, my opinion only - the FFL should just charge you just the $15 (or whatever it is now) for the 2nd NICS check but waive a 2nd charging of their portion of the total transfer charge.
In my experience with my preferred NJ FFL they won’t initiate the NICS check until they have possession of the firearm.
Did the NJ FFL ask your sister in advance for an estimate of when the pistol would be delivered?
I was told that the local FFL is only charging an additional $16 for a new background check. It was the local FFL that didn’t respond promptly to requests for a copy of their license, so the remote FFL had to wait to ship the pistol.
So the local FFL generally initiates the check when the pistol arrives, or when the buying arrives to pick it up? I guess they need to complete the 4473 first, which requires the pistol to be present?
Another question is, why is another background check even required when the pistol purchase permit application included a background check? And before that, the FOID card required a background check. That’s 3 checks for one purchase! (Four in this case.)
Depends. If you have a good relationship and prior history with the FFL then they should be ok starting NICS check when the FFL receives the pistol. If you’re otherwise a new customer I can understand them wanting to see you in person first.
The state of NJ really prefers that you don’t have firearms. Since they’re unable to completely ban the possession/acquisition, they’ll do what they can to make the process onerous.
Well, I guess at least some of the delays were on my sister. Her friend offered the pistol as a Christmas gift and she just got around to having it transferred in July! Part of it is being busy and also not knowing the standard procedure for a transfer.
This is also sad. My sister’s friend won the pistol, but it isn’t on California’s handgun roster, so it had to be kept at a local shop. She could visit her pistol and shoot it, but never take it home! So she offered it to my sister. A Walther PDP-F!
Well, we both moved out of NJ, but my sister decided to return and buy a house. It doesn’t bother her as much because she still seems to believe that it’s for “public safety.”
Good news! She picked up her pistol and they didn’t charge again for the background check!
NICS checks are only permitted to be submitted after the firearm is in the dealer’s possession and the recipient has filled out and signed the 4473 form. Her FFL would have likely have had a problem had the ATF walked in to do an inspection and realized there was a NICS check done that doesn’t have a corresponding 4473 or firearm to go with it.
The background checks for the NJ FPID card and handgun purchase permit are required by state law. The NICS check done by the dealer is required by federal law. NJ has required background checks for FPID cards and handgun purchase permits since 1966.
At this point NJ’s background checks for firearms purchases (as well as the entire concept of FPID cards and HG purchase permits) are completely obsolete and should go away, but NJ will never willingly make gun buying easier. I think ANJRPC and some other NJ gun rights groups have sued to eliminate these requirements, hopefully NJ will be forced to get rid of them.
FOID cards are what Illinois has - a Firearms Owners ID. You cannot own or even handle firearms there without one.
NJ has a FPID card - Firearms Purchaser ID. In NJ you need the card to buy or take new possession of long guns (except through inheritance), the card is also need to buy ammo. You do not need an FPID to own firearms in NJ - though there are several advantages to having one if you own firearms and most people who have guns have one.
I have a Firearms Purchaser Identification Card (FPIC - and it has no expiration) and back in the day you didn’t need one unless purchasing. If you already owned firearms and moved to NJ you would need a FPIC to purchase more but not retain what you have so it was previously not a requirement.
This has since changed (2023) requiring one obtain the FPIC (good for 10 years) and register handguns you bring with you. Also since 2019 it is required to purchase ammo either local or online.
Each FFL handles the NICs checks for his customers the way he want to. This usually depends on the customer relationship, where the gun is coming from, ect.
That being said, if I read this correctly, the receiving FFL delayed sending his lic to the shipping FFL. If this is correct, and the receiving FFL ran a NICS it’s his responsibility to get the paperwork moving asap.
As an example - We do the NICS either when we have tracking info., or the gun actually arrives but that is just how we do it…
When I first started (Approx 15 yeas ago) I was always told, and believe that HG’s had to be shipped N/D or II/Day air because that is always howit was done. But I had gotten a few Ground shipments on transfers and I called my ATF agent to inquire and was told that though it was common practice, it was not a law.
shipping N/D or II/Day cuts down on the chance a HG could get lost, that is the reason so many do it, but again - no law say you have to…
I saw that UPS requires that a firearm be declared and shipped fast, but I wonder if the sender bothered to follow those rules. heh It was shipping earlier in the week with 4 July being Friday, so it was delayed a little.
Which is considered more 2A friendly, UPS or FedEx? (I usually prefer UPS for ammo shipments.)
I agree. I won’t ship using FedEx ground and typically use UPS.
I don’t think FedEx or UPS will any longer accept firearm packages from unlicensed people. Both have policies requiring handguns to be shipped overnight (with some larger distributors being able to ship second day), but this is not law, only their policy. If you ship a handgun ground and something happens to it, I would imagine they will deny any claim if lost or damaged.
