So I was just perusing YouTube and saw tfbtv review the pr-57 compact and it would make it very attractive. EDC option. My question is since it does not use magazines and you load in 10 round clips, stripper clips like an old Mauser or SKS, would that be legal? Legal if only loaded with 10 or because it has the ability to carry 21 rounds inside, it is automatically never going to be legal in the state of NJ?
It does not use a detachable magazine. However, the internal space used to hold the rounds fed from the stripper clip is still a magazine. Think of the tubular magazine on a lever action rifle, or a shotgun.
Also, it is a Keltec. You don’t want one. You especially don’t want to trust your life to one.
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Lever action (manually actuated) is not subject to the 10 round rule. I can stuff eighteen 22 shorts in my Marlin 39D wthout worry. Most, if not all mag restrictions fall under semi auto. However, tube mag (internal mag) rim fire is not subject to the limit, afaik, a 22 semi auto with a tubular mag that holds 12 is not illegal.
semi auto shotguns with tube or otherwise attached mags are restricted to 6 (+1)
The closest approximation is the broom handle Mauser, which I believe is banned by name because it accepts a shoulder stock. Though the BHs mag is internal, it is located outside the pistol grip, so there’s that too.
Dunno, this seems like a curve ball for NJ but I’m sure FPM will make it a crime to own one.
My point was that even though it is built into the gun, it is still a magazine.
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True, but it is not outside the pistol grip and not detachable. It does not appear to be outside the restrictions. The regulations begin with Detachable mag, and this handgun don’t have dat.
ii. A semi-automatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at
least two of the following:
(1) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
(2) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor,
forward handgrip, or silencer;
(3) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel and
that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being
burned;
(4) Manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and/or
(5) A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm.
None of that matters. It isn’t that it may or may not be an “assault pistol”. That the internal magazine holds 20 rounds is what is going to make it prohibited in NJ.
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What statute specifically prohibits it?
The new circa 2018 magazine ban law. Hold for a cite.
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The law doesnt differentiate between attached, or detachable.
A box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm.
There are options for ar15 mags that arent removable(permanent by law only)… by these standards proposed i could fit a 100 round drum to it.
So the only thing that gets an exemption are tube magazines for .22lr, and only because of the length issue and possible ban on all .22lr tube fed guns.
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FIRST LOOK AT NAPPEN LEGAL ANALYSIS ON MAGAZINE BAN!
LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION MAGAZINES(1) What is a large capacity ammunition magazine under New Jersey law?
A: A large capacity ammunition magazine is defined under subsection y. of N.J.S.2C:39-1 as “a box, drum, tube or other container which is capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly therefrom into a semi-automatic firearm.” Under the new law, the definition no longer includes an attached tubular device which is capable of holding only .22 caliber rimfire ammunition.
Do not confuse the State law with the previous (1994-2004) Federal law. The former Federal so-called “Assault Weapons Ban,” which was automatically repealed by a “sunset” provision in 2004, prohibited magazines over 10 rounds, but “grandfathered” all previously existing magazines. State law has now placed the limit at 10 rounds; however, the State did NOT “grandfather” previously existing magazines.(2) What is the penalty for possession of a large capacity ammunition magazine under New Jersey law?
A: It is a crime of the 4th degree with a maximum jail time of 18 months and a maximum fine of $10,000.(3) Are there exemptions for possession of a large capacity ammunition magazine?
A: Yes. An attached tubular device which is capable of holding only .22 caliber rimfire ammunition is exempted. Additionally, “Assault firearm” shall not include a semi-automatic rifle which has an attached tubular device and which is capable of operating only with .22 caliber rimfire ammunition. (e.g. The Marlin Model 60, Remington Model 552, etc. are no longer prohibited.) However, any other type of semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 10 rounds is now defined as an “Assault Firearm” under New Jersey Law. Such firearms may be able to be registered.Under the original law, N.J.S. 2C:39-3j., which remains in effect, possession of large capacity ammunition magazines is prohibited unless the possessor has a registered “assault firearm” (as per N.J.S. 2C:58-12) (this registration period expired in 1991) and “the magazine is maintained and used in connection with participation in competitive shooting matches sanctioned by the DCM.” Under N.J.S. 2C:39-3g., possession by armed forces or military personnel is exempt but only while actually on duty or traveling to or from an authorized place of duty. The magazine must be duly authorized under regulation or orders as well.
In addition to the 1991 registration period, the new law allows any person who possesses a large capacity ammunition magazine to register a firearm with a fixed magazine capacity or detachable magazine capable of holding up to 15 rounds, subject to new registration requirements.The new registration requirements demand that a person who legally owns, prior to the enactment of the new law; 1) a firearm with a fixed magazine capacity holding up to 15 rounds which is incapable of being modified to accommodate 10 or less rounds; OR 2) a firearm which only accepts a detachable magazine with a capacity of up to 15 rounds which is incapable of being modified to accommodate 10 or less rounds. One must register that firearm within one year from the new law’s enactment. (Even though there is only 180 day “grace period” for newly prohibited magazines.
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Well, maybe y’all are right, but I still think it’s a grey area, NJs specialty. Make laws so vague that they can be applied to everything.
I don’t think NJ counted on a stripper clip fed internal mag inside the pistol grip.
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Ain’t grey IMO. It’s a “box…container” that feeds “continuously and directly” into a semi-automatic firearm.
Now, maybe Keltec should come out with a belt-fed pistol. Nappen has previously opined that as long as your belts are NOT inside a “box/container”, there’s no legal limit to the capacity.
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As the OP I wanted to circle back and agree that the box/container argument would rule the P57 illegal in NJ. Bummer
Not that I would want to do such a thing but could this be modified (pinned to 10) to make it compliant?
Yep, believe so, as long as the modification was permanent. It would have to be done by an FFL before transfer to you in NJ.
“Large capacity ammunition magazine” means a box, drum, tube or other container, which is
capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition to be fed continuously and directly
there from into a semi-automatic firearm.
A large capacity ammunition magazine that has been
permanently altered so that it is not capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition will
cease to be defined as a “large capacity ammunition magazine.” An ammunition magazine, which has been temporarily blocked or modified from holding more than 10 rounds, as by a piece of wood or a pin, is still considered to be a “large capacity ammunition magazine.”
So - Since this weapon does not have a “magazine” there would be no way to Block or make it legal in NJ.
AND, as others have said before - it’s a Kel-Tec, I wouldn’t risk my life on any of their firearms - jmo
It has a magazine. It does not have a detachable magazine.
Theoretically, you could take the gun apart, permanently install a block to limit the capacity to 10 rounds and reassemble to make it legal.
On the other hand, it is a Keltec, so I wouldn’t want it to start with even if it was legal. I certainly wouldn’t be interested in spending time and money trying to make it legal.
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with the new ATF laws regarding Gun Smithing / Manufacturing since the gun would need to be taken apart and reconfigured it would need to be done by a Class 7 dealer (Mfg lic) and then re-marked with that dealers logo on the gun (Laser engraved).
A lot of work, and I assume a Class 7 will charge a fortune for that work?
is all this worth it for a Kel-Tec?
I don’t think so but some people gotta have what they gotta have…
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I mean there must be someone out there who buys Keltecs…unless they are just a massive tax write-off for someone.