Yeah right! Meanwhile criminals are running around shooting at people with guns that have high cap mags and then a judge gives them a slap on the wrist. They’re only interested screwing with legal gun owners because we follow the rules.
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If I’m the lawyer for literally anyone with a pending case for possession of an AW or LCM, I’m filing a motion insisting that the case be placed on hold until this plays out in the supreme court.
I’d say there’s at least a chance SCOTUS denies cert here. If they look at the 3rd circuit ruling and think, “this is exactly how we would have decided it” then there’s literally no reason to grant the stay unless they decide they want to answer the magazine question at the same time.
If SCOTUS GVR it again (don’t forget it has already been to SCOTUS and GVR’d once in 2020) it will come back down to the 3rd Circuit in June or July 2027.
The 3rd Circuit will then pass it back to the district court (like they did before).
The district court will order more briefing based on Viramontes and probably another round of oral argument. Then it will get appealed to the 3rd Circuit for the 3rd time.
Then there will be another appeal to SCOTUS.
If this goes the GVR route, we will probably not be getting a ruling that actually changes anything for another 4-6 years.
Remind me what the definition of insanity is again.
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if viramontes is next year why would it be 4-6 years?
Because a GVR says go and do it all over again. It has been 6 years since the last GVR. What reason is there to think the courts will move any faster on their 3rd try?
then thats their plan
That’s not entirely accurate. It depends how different SCOTUS’s reasoning is in deciding Viramontes. They could remand to the 3rd and they could just alter their ruling slightly and that’s that. I actually think that’s more likely.
Revisiting a point I raised earlier about not wanting to have the magazine aspect get to SCOTUS right now. My initial reasoning was incorrect. Mark Smith and the Washington Law guy put up a video where they spoke about this specific aspect. Smith’s reasoning is roughly as follows:
- Roberts likes unanimous decisions.
- A 9-0 AWB decision means it’s going to be narrow.
- Narrowing could imply letting magazine bans stand.
- Therefore, a 6-3 wider decision would be preferable.
SCOTUS hasn’t changed their reasoning since Heller. The lower courts are still failing to follow along.
I do admire your optomism, however.
New News2A article, some more detail/opinions
This article is the full-length follow-up to our earlier piece.:
… What does all this mean for gun owners and FFLs in the state? The stay preserves the status quo, meaning New Jersey’s bans on both “assault firearms” and standard-capacity magazines remain enforceable for now, until either the stay is lifted, a ruling from the Supreme Court influences the Third Circuit’s next move, or the Supreme Court itself grants the state’s impending request for certiorari.
In response to the Third Circuit’s stay order, the New Jersey State Police Firearms Investigation & Licensing Bureau emailed New Jersey firearms dealers with the following message:
The 3rd Circuit has granted a stay, and status quo remains until further order.
…
Yeah I have zero faith in the federal district Court of NJ but my point is, a remand to the 3rd circuit (which already sided with us) doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going all the way back down to the district Court. The 3rd circuit likely won’t have much work to do to make their ruling fully in line with Viramontes. The only reason it would need to go back down to district is if SCOTUS felt like the record wasn’t complete. But that’s very unlikely to happen as this has been litigated for years.
I can also see a scenario where SCOTUS grants cert on the AWB part but denies it for the magazine issue, which would mean the stay would continue for the AWB but not magazines, presumably.
So do this also affect the remand for the Shotgun/Pistol question? Does that get heard still with a decision placed on hold or does it get placed on hold completely until this is finished?
This is from a separate document in the stay as per news2A “the appeals court directed all parties to file a status report by September 3 and every 30 days thereafter until the stay is lifted”
This may be to push NJ to file for cert quicker. If NJ drags their feet the stay could be dropped by the court. Possibly
Yeah. You could also make the argument that NJ might be motivated to submit the petition sooner rather than later if their hope is for this to be consolidated with the other two cases. But I actually feel like their goal is to drag this out as long as possible since they know they’re ultimately going to lose. I think they’ll wait until almost the deadline to submit their cert in hopes that it will be granted and held.
Will be interesting to read NJ’s status update on 09/03 and 10/03. “Working hard on it!”